An Interview with Dr. E. Trey Clark about Black Contemplative Preaching

Black Lives and Contemplation Participants meditating together at the Church of the Ascension in Brooklyn, New York during their Visioning Retreat in October 2024.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“Blackness is not bounded.” - E. Trey Clark

“The determination to see blackness… as if there were no inner life, is racist. The case for quiet is, implicitly, an argument against the limits of blackness as a concept.” - Kevin Quashie

Those of us who practice contemplation are often misunderstood by the wider world. Even when we share our insights through preaching or speaking, our approach may not align with conventional expectations. In Black Christianity, there's a common misconception that all Black preachers must be bombastic and dramatic. While this is true for many, there's a rich tradition of more meditative and contemplative preaching that often goes unnoticed. As scholar Kevin Quashie argues, the idea that silence, and I would add contemplation, is not part of the Black experience is a racist stereotype. 

A few months ago, I had the opportunity to speak with Dr. Trey Clark, author of Black Contemplative Preaching. Dr. Trey Clark's groundbreaking work further illuminates the significance of Black contemplative preaching. His research highlights the long-standing and vital role of this tradition within Black Christian life, both in the United States and the wider African Diaspora. This conversation with Dr. Clark delves into the book’s methodology, the unique aspects of contemplation within a Black context, and its specific application to Black preaching.

Black Contemplative Preaching is a valuable addition to our understanding of contemplation, particularly Black contemplative practices and traditions. As our project, Black Lives and Contemplation, aims to center Black wisdom and experience in contemplative thought, this book aligns perfectly with our mission. 

This condensed interview with Dr. Clark offers a glimpse into his groundbreaking work. To fully explore the depths of Black Contemplative Preaching, you can purchase the book from Baylor Press. Use code 17FALL24 for 20% off and free shipping. Offer expires December 31, 2024.

---

Josué Perea: Thanks for this time, Trey! Before we discuss the book, can you briefly introduce yourself and your work?

Dr. E. Trey Clark: Thank you, brother Josué! So, I was born and raised in Dallas, Texas, studied in Illinois, and moved to California over 15 years ago. I started serving in pastoral ministry at a local church and became increasingly interested in the intersection of spirituality, preaching, and Black church studies. Eventually, I pursued graduate work in theology and spirituality and preaching. Currently, I serve as an Assistant Professor at Fuller Seminary in the area of Preaching and Spiritual Formation. I also recently assumed the role of Dean of Chapel. My work focuses on the intersection of preaching and Christian spirituality, with a particular interest in various Black traditions.

GJP: What inspired you to write this groundbreaking book? You've established a Black contemplative tradition, which is essential for people of African descent in the diaspora and the United States. I'd love to know when the idea first took shape and what motivated you to share this work on black contemplative preaching.

TC: I've always had a contemplative side, but I didn't feel comfortable fully embracing it until later in life. A pivotal moment came when I discovered the work of Howard Thurman. My friend, Justin West, often spoke highly of Thurman, and I was intrigued. While in seminary, I wrote a paper on Thurman's spirituality, which sparked my interest in Black contemplative spirituality. Later, I encountered the groundbreaking work of Dr. Barbara Holmes. When I transitioned to a doctoral program, I sought a dissertation topic that would combine my interests in preaching, contemplative spirituality, and Black church studies. I stumbled upon a reference to contemplative preaching in Preaching with Sacred Fire, an anthology by Dr. Martha Simmons and Dr. Frank Thomas. This sparked my curiosity and led me to choose contemplative preaching as my dissertation topic. I'm grateful for the opportunity to build upon the work of others and share my findings with a wider audience.

GJP: Given your emphasis on contemplative practice, I'm curious about how you define contemplation for yourself. There are many different definitions of the term, some narrow and some broad. How do you understand contemplation and contemplative practice in your own life?

TC: There are various approaches to contemplation. Some people, like St. John of the Cross and Teresa of Ávila, see it as a passive process, something that we enter into rather than an active practice. Others, like St. Ignatius and others, view it as a more active pursuit. For me, I think of contemplation as a practice of paying attention to the Divine in and through all things. It's an expansive and inclusive way of attuning ourselves to God and God's presence. 

I draw on the work of Barbara Holmes, who talks about being attentive to the Spirit of the Living God as a core dimension of contemplation. Cole Arthur Riley also discusses sacred beholding or sacred attentiveness as the core of contemplation. I operate with a more expansive and centered-set definition of contemplation rather than a bounded-set description that tries to define who is or isn't engaged in genuine contemplation.

GJP: The chapter on contemplative preaching, specifically, stood out to me. You traced the lineage of Black contemplative preaching from Northern Africa, starting with Saint Augustine, through its development in the United States, and ultimately to its global reach. How did you go about discovering and compiling this information? It's clear that you had a deliberate intention to trace the lineage back to the continent of Africa, but did you make any other significant discoveries during your research?

TC: While there's extensive literature on contemplation and church history, this chapter emerged from my dissertation, which focused more specifically on Africana contemplative practice and preaching. To streamline the book, I had to remove some of that content. But as I engaged with various scholarship, I looked for signs of proclamation, particularly from individuals who engaged in proclamation inside and outside of traditional liturgical settings. I was interested in how their lives could be seen as contemplative in the ways they connected with God's spirit. 

I drew attention to figures like Augustine and Kimpa Vita, a 17th-century African prophet. I stumbled upon Kimpa Vita while reading a book on the history of Christian missions. I also found Rebecca Cox Jackson, a Black Quaker and Shaker who was a prophet, preacher, and visionary often overlooked in literature on Black contemplation or preaching. These exemplars of contemplative practice demonstrate a lineage of people of African descent engaging in both contemplation and contemplative proclamation.

I highlighted well-known figures from Black church history, offering a rereading of them as contemplative preachers. Scholars like Joy Bostic in her book, African-American Female Mysticism, which examines Sojourner Truth, Jarena Lee, and Rebecca Cox Jackson as African-American female mystic activists, have informed my work. I built upon these ideas and began to view some of these figures as mystical preachers, if you will.

GJP: As you know in our project, Black Lives and Contemplation, we say that we practice contemplation in the Thurman tradition. What distinctive elements of Howard Thurman's approach to contemplative life, particularly in relation to preaching, do you observe?

TC:  Thurman's understanding of Christian contemplation holds together three dialectical tensions that I find unique. For Thurman, contemplation can be both active and passive. He emphasizes meditation as an entryway into contemplation, but he also recognizes that suffering can create openings for a profound encounter with the Divine. 

Thurman also sees contemplation as both individual and communal. He encourages personal prayer and reflection, but he also creates communal environments for contemplation through preaching, which often involves rhythmic repetition and silence. He believes that silence is not empty but substantive and invites his listeners to share in it with him. 

Lastly, Thurman's contemplation cultivates both the inner and outer life. He emphasizes attending to our inward selves but refuses to separate that from action and engagement with the world to promote God's justice. We see this connection in his life, meditations, and preaching. It's also seen in corporate worship services that Thurman led, which he saw as spiritual watering holes for people to be renewed and sustained in their work in the world. These three tensions - active and passive, individual and communal, inner and outer - are evident in Thurman's life and preaching, making his understanding of contemplation unique and thought-provoking.

GJP: Thurman created pathways for his congregation and promoted contemplation for everyone. I think that Bishop Barbara Harris' mystical hermeneutic approach to biblical interpretation influenced Black preaching. Can you share more about Bishop Harris?

TC: I actually reached out to her and was able to interview her for this book. I had hoped to publish the book before she passed away, but unfortunately, she transitioned during the writing process. I hope that I have accurately represented her in my work. 

In my research, I identified three distinctives of black contemplative preaching. The first is the habitus of prayer, which emphasizes the importance of prayer in the life of the preacher. The second is the mystical hermeneutic, which incorporates various scripture passages that focus on God's character and presence. The preacher also draws on alternative sources of wisdom, such as poetry, philosophy, hymns, and ancestral wisdom, to foster interiority and cultivate a contemplative way of being in the listeners.

The third component of the mystical hermeneutic is the resistance to binary or dualistic thinking. Instead, this approach embraces a more holistic Africana approach to life that invites people to experience oneness with the Divine, themselves, others, and all of creation. Bishop Harris often incorporated hymns into her preaching, viewing them as a form of prayer that allowed listeners to engage in communal prayer.

Bishop Harris also preached a sermon that incorporated an ecological approach, drawing upon an African American hymn by James Weldon Johnson. This hymn became a resource for a vision of God's wholeness in the world, promoting justice for all people and the environment. This synthesis is a prominent feature of Bishop Harris's preaching, as she advocated for justice for all, including creation.

Dr. E. Trey Clark and Josué Perea during their interview over Zoom.

GJP: Thank you so much for this time! One last question, in your book, you make the profound statement that "Blackness is not bounded." This idea resonates deeply with me, as you know, and I would greatly appreciate it if you could elaborate further on what you meant by that.

TC: You too brother, the work you're doing is truly inspiring and impressive. Your profound understanding of Blackness challenges me to think more expansively about it. You convey that Blackness is not confined to simple, static notions but encompasses a vast spectrum of experiences and perspectives.

As Touré writes in ‘Who’s Afraid of Post-Blackness?’, there are a thousand and one ways to be Black and no singular definition of Black identity, culture, or spirituality. J. Cameron Carter further expands on this idea by suggesting that Blackness creates a non-exclusionary world that embraces diversity and pushes the boundaries of belonging.  And so not only is Blackness internally diverse, but it actually promotes a kind of imagination that is always pressing the boundaries of belonging.

Black contemplative preachers, who move between multiple spaces, often challenge traditional Black church settings. They may preach in diverse ethnic communities or throughout the African diaspora, reflecting the boundless nature of Blackness. These preachers embody Howard Thurman's belief that "all life is one," emphasizing the interconnectedness of all living beings. So for me, that was part of what I was gesturing at and thinking about in reference to “Blackness as not bounded.” Blackness does not have a barbed-wire fence around it, right? It's expansive, it's inclusive, and it's always running to expand our imagination of intimacy with the other, God, others, and also creation.

GJP: The idea of Blackness you just mentioned is remarkable. Blackness encompasses a broad range of experiences, from being a Black American with a distinct history and legacy to being a Black Colombian or someone from Senegal with their own unique experiences and legacies. While each person's journey is unique, there is a common thread that runs through them all: the lived experience of being black, as Fanon coined it. This essence or lived experience, no matter how many different forms it may take, contributes to the collective Black experience, which is something truly beautiful.

Ok, before we part, is there a final thought you would like to share with us about your book, your process, and what you hope it will accomplish for readers exploring contemplation?

TC: One of my hopes for this book is that it will inspire us to adopt a more holistic and imaginative approach to contemplation. This includes highlighting lesser-known figures and exemplars within Black church traditions and broadening our understanding of contemplative practice. Contemplation should not be viewed solely as an individual exercise but also as a communal endeavor. It should not be confined to interior reflection but should also extend to active engagement in the outer world. Additionally, contemplation should deepen our understanding of belonging in human communities.

The book was written between 2020 and 2021, years marked by fragmentation, division, and painful reminders of the persistence of racial injustice. In this context, I felt compelled to address contemplation not as a neutral concept but one that has an ethical imperative tethered to it. To actually contemplate God means that we are invited into a different way of being in the world that promotes God's Shalom, God's flourishing for others.

And so, my hope is that this book will encourage readers to learn more about various contemplative figures and to adopt a way of being in the world that unites contemplation with action. By doing so, we can embody the love of God in ways that promote God's justice.

GJP: Thank you, Trey. This conversation and the gift of your book have profoundly impacted me. Your book provides an invitation to engage in contemplative practices in a unique and expansive way and this conversation just adds so much to that and to our lives! Thank you!

TC: Thank you so much Josué!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Guesnerth Josué Perea serves as Director of Black Lives & Contemplation and is a novice of the Community of Incarnation. He also serves in other capacities as Associate Pastor at Metro Hope Church, Executive Director of the afrolatin@ forum, Co-Curator of the AfroLatine Theology Project, Executive Producer of the documentary "Faith in Blackness: An Exploration of AfroLatine Spirituality”, and Co-Host of the podcast Majestad Prieta. His perspectives on AfroLatinidad & Blackness have been part of various publications including the New York Times, the New Yorker, and Sojourners & his writings are a part of Let Spirit Speak! Cultural Journeys through the African Diaspora, the Revista de Estudios Colombianos, and Engaging Religion among others.